Transcript of my interview with Brian. Done at the Royal Festival Hall shortly before Brian's 85th birthday - part 1.

What I was going to suggest we started with, as I say we could start looking at where you are now.
Right And then we can go back in time, Okay Okay We can see how the time goes. What energy levels we both have; Right. And sort of see where it goes. And it is going to last roughly ..30 minutes...15 minutes well at least 30 minutes, at least 30 so it could be a little bit more. We might need more time Right, because when someone is 85 there is quite a lot of life history to cover. But don't forget my memory problem.  Well I am sure that it will be more than enough.

Anyway the reason why, apart from the fact that your my father and I think you have an interesting personal story I am interviewing you because your personal story collides with a lot of educational history. Right.  so actually  it is quite interesting to know what  you are doing currently and then as I say we will look at where you started from, so we will look at the current situation, because downstairs (we had a brief lunch at the RFH prior to doing the interview) you were telling me you are involved with some kind of intergenerational project, that you currently got into that.

The link, one of the current links is that ever since my professional career in adult education started I've been associated with the Educational Centre's Association and the ECA recently decided that it wanted to become an intergenerational orgnanisation and got the Charity Commission's permission to for that purpose. So having started out as a beginner with the ECA, and I will tell you more about that in a moment,  I then became President, and then I felt that I had been President for long enough, of this organisation, so they said oh, alright Brian and invented a title for me and I am now President Emeritus (laughter) 

Oh, okay and what do they do, I will be honest I have never heard of them, so it's a bit embarrasing

There are less member organisations than there used to be for various reasons but they are extra-ordinarily active nationally and internationally in terms of policy formation and improvement and the link with them goes right back, not to the beginning of my work as a tutor, but to the beginning of the first full time job I ever had which was in Letchworth, in North Hertfordshire, where I was the Principal of a Voluntary Organisation, which was then known as and is still known as Letchworth Settlement, and I had only been at Letchworth Settlement for two years, when I got nominated to go on a UNESCO Regional Conference which brought together people from the Allied Countries and from the former enemy countries so there we were mixing with Germans, and Finns, because the Finns were not allies of the Germans but they were co-belligerents they had no alternative - So this was in the early 50's - So, this was in the early 50's, that's right, so I am sorry I have to go back to the past as well as to the current story, but in order to explain my connections with the ECA I have to explain they go right back to the beginning of my professional career and it was a marvellous opportunity to be given because it immediately gave me an international perspective it immediately introduced me to three Nordic countries because it was not in Finland but the Finns came to it. It was in  Denmark, Sweden and Norway, and it was extra-ordinary, does not happen these days, this is a three week seminar, so the first week we all spent together, and I cna tell you more if you wanted to know more. The second week we split,one group staying in Denmark, the other one going to Sweden, the other going onto Norway and then the third week we all meet together and compared notes in Norway. I happened to belong to the group that stayed in Denmark and I became immensely close to the Danes   I had been extremely left wing while I was at university for a while and the fact that I was at universityis  itself  a bit amazing,  but I had become extremely left wing, because I was very anti-capitalist but one of the many, many changes that came upon me,  by visiting those three countries, was that I discovered for the first time really that a society based upon the market could be civilized as well - the market could serve its purposes not the whole set up was to serve the market. Yeah, I understand I hadn't realised all that ( i.e. that he had learned this there) which is - in America, in  the United States and Britain still to this day to an extra-ordinary degree the society was meant to be serving the market which is the wrong way round and on the whole the Nordic countries have got it the right way round. So now where are we, ECA  that is how I got connected with the ECA.which I hadn't ever heard of before it stretches right the way back.  It goes backI should think to about 1927 when it was known as the Educational Settlements Association oh okay, that makes sense, the reason there are so few member, member organisations, is largely to do with changes in legislation, changes in funding and ..........However, two or three years ago the ECA and this is relevant I think to your story to my story, the ECA was original enough to have a project which was called the Teddy Bear project, which they got a number of different countries involved in, the Finns, the Italians, the Brits , and there were different centres in all these three countries, and the Teddy Bear project was a project which was deliberately encouraging work between small children and not only grown ups but preferably grand-parents. Alright yeah. One of the events that was organised by the Teddy Bear project funded very largely by...anyway one of the European fundings was in western Finland a part of Finland that I have never been to before and I went with them. Ah, I think this is the thing you did fairly recently  Well, two or three years ago...so yes relatively recent andYou may have seen a photograph of me  I think you had some nice inter-reactions with some nice young Finns that's right you might have seen some photographs of me with Eta,Eta oh right I think her name was and she was 8 years old, so there's the connection if you will between me, Finland and an orgnaisation that I have been associated with on and off all my life I say, all my I say, on and off because I have not been a member of the ECA because 
I wasn't a member of the ECA all the time because I have had a portfolio career doing almost every job in adult education that you can think of. 

A horrid day made better by Brian's ties.

So in many ways yesterday was horrid.  The hearse sat there and I did not know it was Brian. Because we had got there and we were just saying hello, to people; the setting was lovely because we so many of us looked colourful it could have been a good occasion except there was more poignancy to the hugs.   But then this thing sat there a heavy beast. I did not know if it was Brian at first as someone else's name was on it - a  little bit of advertising but nothing that said he is Brian. Even as we were going in,  and the happy chatty band silenced it was hard to know why we there except for death's follower and the big box with flowers on it. Hard to think that my Dad was it in.  But it felt like death. Seeing it come it  I was worried tears would flow but the awareness that we were starting early and latecomers were being shut out distracted me from the awfulness of themoment. I hate it at funerals when the coffin comes in, and I hate it even more when the portals open and the coffin goes out. But once the person taking the funeral started talking out focus was her. And for us speakers the focus was our own need to I suppose try and do Dad proud.


Writing this has kept me focused for the last few days, shutting out the truth of why I was writing it,  and even though writing it made me sad, I enjoyed researching it and practising it. All four siblings in the country spoke. My brother Ed such a revelation that I wanted to reach for my camera and video it. I figured it was bad form but wished I could have captured what he said on Brian's beginnings. Then my brother Nic on Brian's towering educational achievements.   There was a message from my brother Tim, currently holidaying in Peru, and then Joe's lovely piece on Brian as a Dad.


My name is Ellie I am Brian's daughter.  I am an OU graduate and a member of the U3A and I teach so Brian's life work has informed a lot of who I am.  But today I want to share with you my memories of Brian - the Internationalist.

Most of you will know of Brian's deep seated bond with Scandinavia and with Finland, its neighbour, in particular.  His interest in Finnish educational methods, politics, culture and music inspired him for over 60 years.  He enjoyed that his work there was people o a range of backgrounds and ages.  He felt it a great honour when his work with the Finnish Institute was recognised by his becoming  a Knight of the White Rose of Finland in 1990.  Brian and Joy went to Finland to receive the resplendent award.  On their return the grandchildren were thrilled to see the sword that he had been given and which to our amazement he had got through customs.

Brian tried learning a bit of Finnish but it was a bit difficult - he could however, speak reasonable French.  And it was in France that he found the seeds of what was to become the U3A as Brian explained, " I actually told Michael (Young that is) about my French visit over sandwiches in Bethnal Green.  I had the Extra Mural Dept to run so he Michael ...and others ...went on to set up the National Body."

So Brian's work required time abroad, but one place he wasn't sure would welcome him was America.  As a former communist party member he wasn't even sure he would get in. However, when the invite came - the man who brought Sesame Street to the UK enjoyed a successful trip.

It was one of the things that I liked about his personal History, this link with Sesame Street.  And as a child I enjoyed visiting Brian - my Dad - in is various offices - for example on one visit we got to see the original Tardis.  Years later I was fortunate to be invited to sit in on some of the initial meetings connected to the work that Brian did with the European Space Agency using satellite links to extend education.  But the highlight of our working relationship was when we took part in the Nigerian Ugandan British Project Conference at Ibadan in Nigeria in 1986.

It was our first time in Africa and we both found it liberating and invigorating. Brian formed a great fraternal bond with Laolu Ogunniyi the TV producer and on our returned to the UK the Extra Mural dept. ran an innovative project with him bringing Nigerian children over to the UK to compare cultures.

Many of you will know Brian as a man in a suit, albeit with colourful ties (each sibling was wearing one and the funeral invite asked all to wear smart clothes and colourful ties and scarves)  but in Nigeria he relaxed and had a full blown Nigerian outfit made including hat. Wearing it on route back from seeing one of the local Kings or Obas he realised he had left his British clothes behind. Whilst one of the hosts went back to retrieve it we stopped by the dusty road.  As the sun began to set one of the drummers,  who accompanied us everywhere, started a beat that weaved through all of us, including Brian - who plays a mean talking drum - sparking up a spontaneous dance party. It was a magic moment in an unforgettable trip.

Before I leave this worldwide whirlwind I want to take you back to 1968 to the Prague Spring. Brian had links with Czecholslovakia through his work and when the Russians invaded that country there was no Facebook or Instant Messaging - instead a brave soul recorded events, as they unfurled outside his window, on a tape that was then smuggled out of the country, into the UK to Brian.  The Czechs trusted he would find a way to get the plight broadcast.  The taped message described the tanks rolling down the road and ended, "Do not forget Czechoslovakia"

Around the world and in the UK there are people who will not forget my Dad, Brian Groombridge - Internationalist.

A smidgen of fame

When I was about 13 my elder brother and I, with two friends, went youth hostelling. We travelled by bike. One day registering the American registering about the same time got all excited by our surnames and asked if by chance we were related to Brian Groombridge of the Libraries Association book. We were not quite sure about the latter, but could confirm that Brian was related to us and was probably the man he was thinking of. Subsequent to this I made the effort to visit the Library Association to find out what all the excitement was about but in certain fields like this (and I think it helped when I applied to be a radio journalist)
Brian was known.

Nic and I also had the fun of seeing the Tardis whilst on a visit to Lime Grove studios I think it was and seeing him interviewing a famous film reviewer. (Dilys Powell?)  We  or I also got to watch filming of La Fille Mal Gardee in a studio as part of the preparation for BBC2 going into colour.  In fact as a result of this and the fact that I tended to see Brian in restaurants and did wildly adult things like using taxis a certain glamour clung to him from my point of view probably fostering my love of the media and my shallow desire for fame! However, my efforts as a journalist faltered so I followed him into education instead and although we never lived together doing things like visiting him at the IBA and then at the University did foster and environment where learning was a constant in our lives.  He also always talked to us in a way (and others) that respected our views i.e. quite an adult way rather than being a chummy Dad - which encouraged our intellect. Given that this was also reflected in my own home it is perhaps not surprising that so many of his children have been involved with education or broadcasting at various times.

Unexpected moments.

After the age of 2 I never lived with my father so all our meetings were arranged, but twice wondering through London I happened on him - once in Russell Square near his work when I was with friends and I think we all had a coffee together and the second time was when I was working at the ROH. I was passing a cafe rouge I think it was and there he was sat there, so of course I went in, and sat and talked for a while.

Ellie not just the voice but the smile too and the warm embrace.  He looked a little lonely that day, always up in London for work I guess it is inevitable you will eat alone.

When he worked at the University though he had a London flat, a couple in fact, one with long stairs up and big rooms with a plaque to Christina Rossetti on it, another even further up, on Handel Street, little oasis where one could spend time with him.

I was lucky to work with Brian on something called NUB.  The Nigerian Ugandan British project. It came out I think of other work to do with space satellites and education - Brian was technology way ahead at one point as I would often remind him as he struggled with facebook. The project was a more hands on human to human activity with educationalists and adult educators coming together to try and share ideas across the three countries.  I think Brian just invited me because of my love of international sharing and I helped organise some events on a volunteer basis such as Dr Chris Nwamuo coming to the University of London and other events co-ordinated with the Mental Health Film Council, but the highlight of hte project was our visit to Nigeria.  Brian funded by the British Council me by me on my  first visit to the fatherland or motherland. Both of us felt profoundly that in some ways we were home. Laolu Ogunniyi a big part of the event felt like a brother to Brian. Brian so usually to be found in a suit and tie removing it, even donning traditional Nigerian costume, playing talking drums, meeting and visiting with local kings and local prophets.  It had a profound impact on us and led to children from Nigeria coming over to the UK to experience a week's workshop with British kids. The children stayed at the University of London.  So while Brian is rightly known for his work in Finland for which he had a profound love, he also worked in Africa.

swimming and laughter

Suddenly the flash of sunlight and people swimming in Richmond open air pool has penetrate my attempts to sleep. Not known for his sporting prowess apart from his love of tennis, yet I seem to recall we did it more than once.


My son picked up the message about his grandad and recalled at once the laugh that could fill a hall and the warmth of his interest in all that he did.

Dear Ellie

I keep hearing the warmth of his voice, sad that just the memory of it is all I will now have and it makes me realise what a lovely voice it was. His mother, my grandmother was a singer, now I realise how much melody was in the pitch and intonation of his every word. For years I have known my Dad as a speech maker he could make them at the drop of a hat, and in the last few years I have noticed as his faculties shifted that some kind of social functioning was something he would fall back on - hence the need to introduce people to each other. Always falling back on his social role. But now as I hear Ellie, Dear Ellie I realise how much his voice spoke to me as his daughter, it was a voice that could almost caress. (Ellie wasn't even the name he had given me at birth but he did not demure, but invested it, a bit like David Attenborough does with value).

A good friend of mine told me tell him you love him, and I did as he lay dying. I who had spent so much of my life waiting for him to tell me that finally got round to saying it. It did not sound very authentic. My farewell had more warmth and love in it as it was more natural, but I am glad I said it and now realise how much I should have said it - now that it is too late, because now I understand the warmth that was in his voice and how much care he felt - not just for me,  but for all those he spoke to.

But hopefully those good times together, maybe even in my battles with him, maybe he understood how much he mattered.

Wish I had a better memory but..

I had planned to try and work today but ...

Then I wanted to sleep but...

Instead I seem to be watching TV, eating, crying and let the memories float up.  However I do wish I had a better memory, for example I am sure that Dad and I went to the proms together more than once, but there is a once that is really sticking in my memory as we rushed up the stairs and only just got into our box in time for the performance. I think it was someone called Tom Hanson or something like that singing American folk music, it was very lovely.  I think after that visit I went to the proms quite often.  

Dad was very good he often went to see my other Dad in concert which was I thought very kind of him.   I know he liked music but it was just so nice to be in the audience with my Dad and yet be watching my Dad.

Which reminds me suddenly of when I graduated.  I graduated after my first degree never dreaming when I got to Hons I would have such a good result, but Jeff was kind enough to come with me and tolerate me pretending to be batman in my gowns, but think how special it is to receive your degree and when you go up, there is your Dad on the dais as one of the OU officials.

Meanwhile back to the concert that stands out, we went to one near Sloane Square and had such a delicious meal of green beans and goats cheese sandwich... I did not know I liked such things but it was the only thing on the menu that I vaguely fancied but it was so nice.  Then round to Cadogan Hall. probably the first time I had ever been there.  I have a sense of the restaurant...

That is the problem with memories I have a sense of lots of places, like I can remember a sense of a restaurant we went to when I was a child, us queuing up and then when we had our meal me ordering rice pudding as I did not want to have anything too extravagant  but despite thinking I sometimes I write, trying to think how to put that memory into an accurate description that someone can more or less say there are with me in that memory is much harder.

Brian's 89th birthday.

To my Dad.

My last post was called the Last Post, but this really is a last post.

Last night me, my brothers Ed and Nic my sister in law and my nephew were all at hospital with my Dad Brian.  It was our chance to say Goodbye to him. Though he slipped in and out of sleep when he woke he was still my Dad. It was lovely to be able to sit with him.  He kept saying goodbye.  And the look of love between him and Joy, his wife, was so tender.  It is very hard to say goodbye to someone you love.

My relationship with my Dad, has been so complex for so long but a couple of years ago I just said, make the most of this time, his time on earth and so it is.  This last few months, with each heart attack, each diminishing, has despite the heart break been a very important healing time. That he was able to come to my birthday party was a miracle. That we were able to celebrate his 89 was another miracle.  I am sure in the next few weeks some of the painful aspects of our history will come up again.  It is I guess always difficult when having both a father one loves and a step father one loves and owes so much to to show both how important they are. I always loved going to see Brian when I was a child, I would smile from ear to ear, but the happiness and the pain of goodbye always wrecked me.  Perhaps if I had known I would share my life with him till I was 60 and he an old man I would not have been so anxious. Perhaps if I had known that he and I would travel to Nigeria together, perhaps if I had known he would go to Carnival but as a child, as a 20, 30 year those snippets of time together were so precious but painful that family get togethers were a necessary  and pleasurable but also tortuous  time. Then I had my own family, had battles with myself whether my own son needed a father or not and then at some point settled into a once or twice a year get together always pleasurable but measured time with my father, my son's grandfather. .It was so measured that when I went to live in Senegal 7 years ago  Brian commented not meanly that well he only saw me twice a year so it would not make much difference.  He and I once had he most amazing meal together a meal that brought complete peace that was shattered by complete turmoil and after for a year or so I could not even met with him. , And then luckily sense prevailed. As  a child I sort of lost him but I had not lost him, he was still there, had in fact always been there and now I had to make the most of our time together. That time has been too short  But I would not have missed that time for the world.  Love you Dad, Your daughter. Helen - Ellie Austen.